Telegram founder’s DNA airdrop: At 40, he has already made a will for 100 children

Author: Guillaume Grallet, Le Monde Translator: angelilu, Foresight News

Editor's Note: After being prosecuted by France in August 2024 and banned from leaving the country, Telegram founder and CEO Pavel Durov was allowed to leave France for 14 days from July 10, 10 months later, but only to Dubai (his family is in Dubai) and must continue to be subject to judicial supervision.

French magazine "Point de Point" interviewed Pavel Durov, co-founder and CEO of the encrypted communication app Telegram, in the longest interview he has ever given. In this interview, he talked about the feeling of being interrogated in France, revealed information about several national power agencies and intelligence agencies, including the FBI and the French Directorate-General for External Security (DGSE), expressed his fight for freedom of speech and his concerns about the future of democracy, his firm refusal to sell Telegram, and his deep feelings for France. He also shared his views on Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and ChatGPT creator Sam Altman.

Pavel Durov also revealed that he has made a will at the age of 40, and his wealth will be "equally" distributed to his six biological children and more than 100 children born from sperm donation, and his children are required not to inherit his property within 30 years. His "maintenance secret" to look so young is to stay away from everything that may be addictive, not drinking alcohol, coffee or tea, not smoking, staying away from sugar, and doing 300 push-ups every morning without interruption, followed by 300 squats.

Pavel Durov said that Telegram is a source of expenditure for him, not a source of income, and his liquid assets are much less, and not from Telegram, but from his investment in Bitcoin in 2013. His view on AI is that the current big models are not smart, and his brother Nikolai is developing truly "smart" AI.

The following is the full interview:

You are charged with 17 very serious crimes related to child pornography, drug trafficking, money laundering... Do you understand what you are accused of?

Pavel Durov: This is completely ridiculous. Just because criminals use our communication service among many platforms does not make the person who operates it a criminal... There has never been any evidence that I have committed any crime for even a second. But it seems that I have been punished at this stage by being banned from leaving the country. It's as if the French judges understood that there was not enough substance to follow up for a real conviction and wanted to punish me today. They said Telegram refused to cooperate. This is wrong. It was the French police who did not follow the international procedures correctly. The Telegram team even had to show them how to do it correctly.

Have you been summoned by the judicial system?

I met with the judge in charge of my case twice, in December 2024 and February 2025. There is another appointment in July. But this is crazy... I understand that things take time. But why do I have to stay in France and wait? My lawyer has submitted to the judicial system all the documents they requested.

The first days were difficult...

I was constantly interrogated in the judicial customs facility. For four days, I answered all the questions. At night, a bright light illuminated the 7 square meters room where I slept on a concrete bed. The room was clean but there were no pillows. The mattress [he gestures with his thumb and forefinger to indicate thickness] was no thicker than a yoga mat.

You seem to be very affected by being forbidden to leave French territory...

Yes, very much. My parents have very serious health problems and statistically they only have a few years left to live. I lost precious time with them. In addition, I have a newborn son whose first months I missed. He still doesn't have a passport because I was not there for his birth in Dubai. I also have a teenage son in boarding school in Dubai who just broke his arm and has no parents around to support him.

Does this situation have an impact on your activities?

Yes, it does. For example, I was supposed to speak at the Oslo Freedom Forum last May. The forum's chairperson is Yulia Navalnaya (Foresight News Note: Yulia Navalnaya is the wife of the late Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny), and I wanted to meet her, as well as activists from other parts of the world, to understand how they use Telegram and what we can improve. The judge banned me from going there. We had to do a live interview via video conference. I have been fighting for free speech for almost two decades. Navalny sometimes expresses views I agree with, sometimes makes statements I disagree with - but he has a fundamental right to free expression, which I always uphold. Faced with the Russian authorities, I had only two choices: either give in to their demands or sell my shares and leave the country.

A question that is often asked: Are you close to Vladimir Putin?

I have only met a senior Russian official once, in 2013. At that time I was the head of VKontakte ("Russian Facebook"), and I refused to provide information about regime opponents. The meeting lasted no more than 15 minutes. The senior Russian official insisted that, in his opinion, the social network should be a government tool. Then I had two choices: either I did exactly what the Russian authorities expected, or I sold my company shares and left the country. The Russian regime gave me the freedom to choose. So I told them: "I understand, thank you very much." Two months later, I sold my shares in VKontakte. I have not set foot in Moscow for more than ten years.

Have you cooperated with the Russian authorities in any way?

No. We process reports from Russia and other countries to remove obviously illegal content (such as open promotion of the sale of illegal drugs), but we have never met requests related to political censorship or political persecution. During my time at VKontakte, I publicly refused to cooperate for this. I was even summoned by the Russian judiciary. In 2014, I left everything.

According to the media Important Stories, you continue to travel to Russia. Some say: If you are still alive, it is because you have an agreement with the Kremlin...

I went to Russia between 2015 and 2017 to visit my family in St. Petersburg - it was never a secret, I even posted about it on social networks. I also went there to support my father during the coronavirus pandemic. But I have not been back for four years, since the first articles appeared in 2021 referring to a possible war with Ukraine.

Before coming to France, you were in Azerbaijan...

Before coming to Paris last August, I arrived in Azerbaijan after passing through Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. I stopped in Baku, where President Putin arrived two days after I left the mountains. I met neither him nor anyone from his entourage. During this trip, I only met with the President of Azerbaijan, and we discussed the role of Telegram in the country. You know, in three years, I met with 16 heads of state. I did not always agree with them.

Does this mean that you agree with the policies of Ilham Aliyev, who is considered authoritarian?

You know, in three years, I met with 16 heads of state. I did not always agree with them. Like Paul Kagame in Rwanda. You can criticize his methods, but what he did in Rwanda is impressive. I realized this when I went to the villages. I saw that despite the poverty and history that the country has gone through, people still smile and want to survive.

In your opinion, how has the war in Ukraine affected people's views on Telegram?

In Russia, they say Telegram supports Ukraine. In Ukraine, they say Telegram spreads Russian propaganda. In reality, we have a duty to be neutral. Telegram is a platform where different ideas can collide, where everyone can be exposed to different viewpoints and decide freely what they want to believe. I will never express an opinion on geopolitical conflicts, because this would immediately be interpreted as supporting one of the two camps, and a neutral platform cannot do this if it wants to remain impartial and apply the same rules to everyone. But I will always fight for fair access to free and independent information. Once you legitimize censorship, it is difficult to go back.

You have expressed concerns about the European Digital Services Act, which aims to combat false information, hateful or illegal content on online platforms...

These laws are dangerous because they can be used against the people who create them. Today, they target so-called conspiracy theorists. Tomorrow, they may target their own authors. These precedents weaken democracy in the long run. Once you legitimize censorship, it is difficult to go back.

You are sometimes compared to Elon Musk...

Yes, but we are very different. Elon manages several companies at the same time, while I manage only one. Elon can be very emotional, while I try to think carefully before I act. But this can also be a source of his strength. One person's strengths can often become weaknesses in another context.

What do you think are the strengths and weaknesses of Mark Zuckerberg (founder of Facebook)?

Mark is adaptable and able to follow trends quickly, but he seems to lack fundamental values ​​that he would be loyal to no matter how the political climate or fashions in the tech industry change. Similarly, Mark's strengths and weaknesses may have the same roots. Remove the weaknesses, and you also remove the strengths.

What about Sam Altman, the founder of OpenAI, the parent company of ChatGPT?

Sam has excellent social skills, which enabled him to build a coalition around ChatGPT. But one wonders whether his technical expertise will still be sufficient after his co-founder Ilya [Sutskever, editor's note] and many other scientists left OpenAI. It will be interesting to follow the development of ChatGPT and their ability to stay ahead in an increasingly competitive environment. I would like to point out that I do not discriminate between my children.

You often mention your family. What place does it occupy in your life?

It is very important. I recently wrote my will... I decided that my children will not receive my property until thirty years from today. I want them to live like normal people, grow up on their own, learn to trust themselves, be able to create, and not rely on a bank account. I would like to point out that I do not discriminate between my children: those conceived naturally and those conceived from my sperm donation. They are all my children and will all have the same rights! I do not want them to fight each other after I die.

How many children do you have?

I have six children with three different partners. The others are from my anonymous donation. I started donating sperm to a clinic 15 years ago to help a friend, and the clinic told me that more than 100 babies have been conceived this way in 12 countries.

Why write this will now? It's rare at 40...

My work involves risks - defending freedom makes you many enemies, including enemies inside powerful countries. I want to protect my children, and I want to protect the company I founded, Telegram. I want Telegram to always be true to the values ​​I defend.

You look very young...

I follow a strict life and exercise routine, doing 300 push-ups every morning without a break, followed by 300 squats - also in a row. I do not drink alcohol, coffee or tea, do not smoke, stay away from sugar. In short, stay away from everything that can make you addicted. I like to be in cold water. I sometimes swim in Finland or Lake Geneva in the dead of winter - this may cause confusion (he smiles).

What will happen to Telegram after you...?

If I disappear, a non-profit foundation will take over. My goal is to ensure the continuity of the platform: I want it to continue to exist independently, respecting privacy and freedom of expression.

In the past, you were targeted by the Pegasus spyware. However you can live without your phone...

I don't carry my phone with me. I manage my Telegram app and video conference work meetings from my iPad. I prefer to read, think and write rather than staring at my phone. This frees me. My team knows how to contact me and I can stay focused. Attention is our most valuable asset today. Notifications are parasites in our lives.

Is this a form of digital asceticism?

Absolutely. I prefer to protect my thoughts. It's also a form of respect for the people I interact with: I'm there, with them, truly together.

Should people under 15 be banned from using social networks?

Such initiatives do not work in my opinion. Children can easily use VPNs. It's not feasible. The most important thing is to instill discipline. We must show them that success through hard work brings priceless confidence. There is no point in banning if the adults themselves do not lead by example.

Do you consider yourself a political entrepreneur?

I am apolitical. I have never voted. But I defend freedom tirelessly.

Is Donald Trump contributing to global unrest?

I am not a fan of everything he does, but I think that banning Donald Trump from social networks is a mistake and even very dangerous. It sets a precedent. If we can allow ourselves to treat a former US president like this, then it means that everyone is vulnerable.

Is that why you defend free speech?

Absolutely. Today, it may be the bad guys who are censored. But tomorrow, it may be you. Freedom cannot be defended in half.

How do you explain Telegram's strong growth without ads?

Our starting point is to bet on human intelligence. If we offer consumers a better experience than competitors, they will test it and adopt it. In addition, people often use multiple applications: one for work, another for personal life, another for learning.... In addition, our application consumes very little memory or bandwidth, which makes it very popular in countries such as Afghanistan and Iran. Although Telegram has been banned by the Iranian government since 2018 for refusing to block protesters' channels.

Even if this is partly through Russia-based infrastructure or data centers?

We do not have and never had infrastructure in Russia.

Do you feel that some competitors are copying you?

WhatsApp has always copied our innovations with a five-year lag... But that doesn't bother me, it validates our choices. I've met with Mark Zuckerberg. I respect his business leadership, but to be honest, with so many resources, I think they could have been more original. I recently learned that WhatsApp has a team dedicated to monitoring our movements...

You're more of a fan of Signal messaging...

Yes, I met its head Meredith Whitaker in Paris last year. She struck me as a smart, reasonable person. Sure, we debate who uses the best encryption. I'll continue to wonder why all US messaging services (Signal, WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Google Messages) use the exact same encryption, as if using something else is forbidden. But fundamentally, Telegram and Signal are on the same side of the challenges we must overcome.

Telegram received several acquisition offers...

Google tried to acquire Telegram when we were just starting out. In 2017, I met with Sundar Pichai (Google CEO) in Mountain View and he offered $1 billion. Google was eager to acquire a messaging service because they missed out on WhatsApp, which was eventually acquired by Facebook. They had tried to build their own messaging app but found it incredibly difficult. Building a successful messaging app is like nurturing a tree, it takes time and care.

Why did you say no?

I didn't hesitate for a second. It wasn't about the price, Telegram was not for sale. Because Telegram is not a product, it's a project. An idea. A promise of independence, confidentiality, freedom to its users. If you sell, you betray that promise. It's impossible and I will never do it.

Are you still the only shareholder in Telegram?

Yes, I own 100% of the company. There are no external shareholders, and therefore no interference. This is the only way to guarantee the complete independence of Telegram. I learned a lesson from the history of VKontakte. As soon as you share control, you lose freedom.

Looking back, do you have any regrets about the development of Telegram?

Not really. We have a team of about fifty people, based in Dubai — that's enough. A small team can move faster. We also work with more than 1,000 service providers in other parts of the world (mostly content moderators), but the number of developers does not need to increase with the number of users. We sometimes hire new engineers, choosing them from the winners of the coding competitions we organize regularly. One of our recent hires has won our competition 17 times in eight years — and he was only 22. My brother Nikolai is currently working on real AI — AI that can think logically and understand the world.

Does AI impress you?

The thing is, today’s generative AI like LLM (Large Language Model) doesn’t think. It doesn’t understand, it just reads a lot of text and repeats a consensus version. It looks credible, but it’s not necessarily so. And we humans are fooled because we associate complex language with intelligence. But these models are not intelligent. They’re just complex. My brother Nikolai (referring to Pavel Durov’s brother Nikolai Durov) is currently working on real AI — AI that can think logically and understand the world.

Will it replace certain jobs?

We are experiencing an unprecedented acceleration of technology. For teenagers, adaptation is natural. But for experienced professionals, like lawyers or doctors, who have high salaries, the transition will be brutal. Despite their excellence, their perceived value in the market may decrease. Yes, jobs will disappear. But history shows that other jobs will appear. What matters is the wealth created. Not having to work like a slave and being able to live like a king is progress. There will be a place for everyone as long as we want to create and contribute to society.

What about Telegram?

AI enables us to conduct effective moderation. Thanks to it, we can remove up to 99% of problematic content. Millions of posts per hour, it is impossible to process manually. Each user can also summarize discussion threads, documents, correct texts, translate, find help with writing...

What role does your brother play by your side?

Nikola is a genius, but he has not been involved in Telegram's operational activities for many years. In recent years, he has focused on fundamental research, such as designing an infinitely "scalable" blockchain architecture.

Telegram generates 500 million euros in profits, making you a rich man...

Telegram never paid me dividends, and I didn't have a salary - for me, Telegram was a source of expenses, not income. I wanted this project to exist, so I spent almost all the money I got from selling VKontakte shares (more than $200 million) to build Telegram. Then we raised funds for Telegram's blockchain project, but after being banned by the SEC in 2020, we had to return investors' funds. We returned everything. But for this, we had to go into debt for $2 billion. Telegram still carries this debt.

In Paris, you mainly lived at the Hotel Cleon, a palace. Did you develop an interest in this kind of luxurious life?

I don’t own a house, a yacht or a private jet – although I sometimes rent them – and I like to stay in beautiful hotels. I think owning things distracts me from my mission: building Telegram. Last October, I realized that I had been wearing the same pair of shoes for four years in a row (my friends gave me a new pair for my 40th birthday). I only have one formal suit, but most of the time I wear sportswear – usually Adidas or Nike. The media says my wealth is estimated at between $15 billion and $20 billion, but this is just a theoretical estimate of what Telegram might be worth. Since I’m not selling Telegram, it doesn’t matter. I don’t have that money in a bank account. My liquid assets are much smaller – and they don’t come from Telegram: they come from my investment in Bitcoin in 2013.

Did the poverty you experienced as a child help you achieve success?

I remember very clearly the black jacket I wore as a teenager. I only have one and I love it. My mother bought it second-hand in a small neighborhood shop in St. Petersburg. She had two jobs: a German translator and a legal assistant in an American law firm. My father taught for a long time without being paid. The Russian state went bankrupt in the 1990s. It was hard, but educational. Even when I was sick, I never missed classes. My mother said, "You are not sick, you go to school."

On May 18, you accused France of influencing the Romanian elections, which was denied by the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs and the DGSE...

This was a private conversation in the Battles salon of the Clion Hotel, where I spoke with Nicola Reiner, the head of the DGSE, and a DGSE agent who worked at the French Embassy in the UAE. Nicola told me, "We may have a problem in Romania," and asked me if I could delete the Telegram channels run by supporters of one of the conservative candidates in the Romanian presidential elections - those that already existed and those that might appear in the future. I remember him mentioning that he thought there was a risk of starting to organize demonstrations in these channels. My answer was very clear: I did not suppress protesters in Belarus, Russia, Iran or Hong Kong, and I would not start doing so in Romania. I told them that if they thought that because I was stuck in France I would comply with all demands, they were very wrong. I would rather die than go against my values ​​and betray my users.

Have you communicated with the French secret services?

Yes, I can always be contacted by the French authorities, because my office is in the same building as the French Consulate in Dubai. A DGSE agent working for the French Embassy, ​​accompanied by colleagues, sometimes came to see me in the office and asked Telegram to help their counter-terrorism efforts in France - faster than the usual legal procedures would allow, because the situation was urgent. Last July, he again asked me to help prevent possible attacks during the Olympics. We helped, and he thanked me for it. A month later... I was arrested in Paris.

Does Telegram transmit data to the authorities?

Telegram employees cannot view or read users' messages, which explains why we have never disclosed a single private message in our entire history. If we receive a court decision stating that a certain identifier is suspected in a criminal investigation, we analyze metadata, which allows us to provide IP addresses and phone numbers. That's all.

When was your last conversation with Emmanuel Macron (President of France)?

For a long time he could send me messages on Telegram on various topics. The last time was the day of my statement about the Romanian elections and the DGSE. He sent me a message (he smiles). I did not answer him.

What if he proposed to meet you?

I would refuse.

For what reason?

He understood certain things but could have done better. I had high hopes for him, he carried a real vision. But as the end of his second term approaches, I see that he has not made the right choices. I am very disappointed. France is getting weaker and weaker. There is an obsession with communication, and real strength is not shown but demonstrated. Reality has become an illusion, like a Potemkin village.

President Macron facilitated your French naturalization in 2021 as an outstanding foreigner, just like Snap co-founder Evan Spiegel...

Yes, this makes my position more delicate. I deeply admire French culture and history. It is an honor to be associated with France. But the direction the president is taking worries me.

Do you question his long-term vision?

Prosperity comes from competition between ideas, companies, policies. And today, France does not encourage this. The country is losing competitiveness. This is paradoxical, because the French have unique talents and the ability to do things in a balanced and beautiful way. They can contribute to the global economy more effectively.

They failed to do this?

Yes. Many of the best talents leave. We see more and more of them in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, the United States, Milan... It's a real brain drain.

Why Dubai instead of Paris?

I chose Dubai because I can manage a global company more effectively there. Unlike France, where the bureaucracy is heavy, Dubai offers a flexible environment. The procedures there are automated, supported by artificial intelligence, and almost everything is done online. Even justice is faster. In France, a simple tax investigation can freeze a company's accounts for years until it suffocates, even if it is later clarified. This heaviness kills entrepreneurial spirit.

Why not the United States?

One ​​of the main reasons is the pressure that the US government can exert, especially on technology companies. Of course, the United States is not the only country that wants to control platforms. But I have already been pressured by the FBI. Moreover, in the United States, there is a legal procedure that allows the government to force an engineer to install a backdoor in the software without him having the right to warn anyone, not even his employer. This mechanism is called a "gag order". If an engineer discloses this to his boss, he can go to jail. Such laws give the government the possibility to legally turn your own employees into spies, without you knowing it. And then there is the incident in San Francisco - the only time I was physically attacked. I will never forget it.

Back to France: No political leaders have gained favor in your eyes?

Politicians often lack courage. They always look for scapegoats to explain why they have failed. In France, a country where residents are demanding and prone to complain, this attitude only makes things worse. Instead of saying to citizens, as they would to adults, "It's up to us. We have to roll up our sleeves and get to work," they blame Trump and his tariffs, the role of the tech giants, immigrants... Depending on which party is speaking, the culprit changes name.

Is it too late to reform France?

If you raise one or two generations with a certain mentality, it takes decades to change it. If we continue to waste time, the risk that the country will have to go through very extreme changes increases. Just like the Soviet Union in the 1990s, we witnessed economic collapse, anarchy, crime, drug abuse. Then, Russia emerged from this crisis with a vibrant private sector and strong growth. Then, 15 years later, everything deteriorated again for other reasons. When you delay necessary reforms for too long, you will eventually experience a collapse. The French don't realize that freedom and prosperity are not God-given.

Do you think you are being spied on every day?

When I lived in Russia, I recognized the agents who followed me, even in the subway. Today, I don't even think about it anymore. Xavier Niel, with whom I used to walk in Paris, once said to me jokingly: "Since intelligence services from different countries are following you, you don't need private security. They are everywhere, even on the rooftops, there, watching you!"

Do you believe in God?

I believe that there is more to this life than just the physical. There is an invisible dimension that we sometimes feel deeply but cannot name. I was baptized as a Christian, but I am also very interested in Eastern traditions such as Taoism or Buddhism. I have long practiced meditation and yoga. For me, all religions try to express the same fundamental truth in their own cultural language. I don't want to limit myself to a single path.

Some suggest that we live in a simulation orchestrated by aliens...

It is possible. Civilizations have always tried to explain the invisible world with the tools of their time. Before, it was reincarnation, the soul. Today, with technology, we talk about simulation. It is just a contemporary way of expressing the ancient mysteries. A hundred years from now, we will use other metaphors. Perhaps more powerful ones.

Technology, so powerful, also pollutes... And yet you are concerned about the spread of microplastics...

These ubiquitous particles in the water, air, food, may eventually affect our civilization in an insidious way, a bit like lead weakened the health of the Romans. History remembers their empire, but has not forgotten the role of lead - in pipes, utensils - weakening generations. Today, we observe a rapid decline in male sperm concentrations in many regions, partly due to plastics. If we continue to ignore these invisible pollutants, we are threatening not only our personal health, but also our very survival. The real danger is uniformity. The world is becoming too homogeneous.

Do you speak Italian?

Every time I hear someone speak Italian, it touches me. It reminds me of my school days in Turin, where my father taught as a professor of classical philology, when I was between 4 and 8 years old. One teacher from Calabria was especially kind to me. The others, they were a bit teasing: "little communist", "Soviet kid"... Northern Italians are sometimes a bit arrogant and not very welcoming to people coming from the south or to foreigners. But the vast majority of residents are very welcoming.

Do you still believe in democracy, although it has never been more threatened than now?

Democracy is still a good system as long as different visions can collide and people can choose. Some people think other systems could work - enlightened monarchy, for example - but what if the successor is incompetent? The real danger is uniformity. The world has become too homogenous. The same products, the same culture everywhere... This standardization makes us fragile. We must maintain diversity of systems, ideas, approaches.