Dialogue with Pima: The investment logic behind the Soha culture

Compiled & compiled by: TechFlow

Broadcast date: May 24, 2025

Podcast source: Web3 101

【Host】

Liu Feng,BODL Ventures Partner, former editor-in-chief of Chain News

Xiong Haojun Jack,deputy editor-in-chief of BlockBeats, host of "Web3 Anonymous"

【Guest】

Pima,co-founder of Continue Capital

legendary investor in the cryptocurrency world, Pima, was a guest at Web3 101 to discuss why he believes The investment logic of Meme Immortality and Meme Launch Platform, as well as the complete change of the era we live in, the investment theme of the cryptocurrency world in the eyes of Pi Ma has changed. Cosmos Meme Reflection: The Siphon Effect and Matthew Effect of Liquidity Liu Feng: As an OG, you once had outstanding achievements in the public chain and DeFi fields, but in today's Crypto investment world, OG feels like a swear word. Now the most amazing thing is the story of P Xiaojiang becoming P Marshal. What do you think of this trend?

PiMa:

I am a senior participant in Memecoin. On the one hand, I have worked more on Solana in this cycle. I have participated in all of Solana’s Memecoins, including the earliest BONK, WIF, BOME, POP CAT, and the later GOAT, as well as a large number of projects that have been eliminated by the survival of the fittest.

At that time, we took it for granted that if Solana Meme recovered, other public chains would definitely recover to a certain extent. So after Solana deployed BONK, it seemed to me that it was a very logical fit to look for similar Memecoins in ecosystems such as Cosmos and Avalanche to deploy.

But I ignored the siphon effect and Matthew effect of liquidity. After you participated in the first wave, it was actually over. You thought it would have a second and third wave, but in fact it completed its historical mission in an early rebound stage, and the remaining mainstream funds would return to some on-chain ecosystems dominated by Solana at the time.

I have shared before that Memecoin accounts for about 1% to 3% of the market value of the public chain, and may reach 5% in extreme conditions. At that time, I made a lot of observations and statistics and concluded that the top Memecoin accounted for 1% to 5% of the market value of the public chain at that time in a certain period of time. There are several outliers in this range, such as DOGE and SHIB, but I excluded them.

Later, as the cryptocurrency circle developed, you will find that Solana is completely unsuitable for this system. It has a large number of Memecoins that have emerged one after another, presenting a completely different atmosphere from other ecosystems.

This is entirely determined by Solana's retail investors. Solana is a market centered on retail investors, which determines that the Solana ecosystem has many tracks and fields that are easy to bring emotionality, volatility, and high marketization to retail investors. On the one hand, I want to observe the entire Solana ecosystem, and on the other hand, I am willing to actively participate in Memecoin, which has both liquidity, participation, and a wide user base, and is relatively not so mainstream.

How can you make money in this feast of behavioral finance in Memecoin?

Liu Feng:If you want to invest in Memecoin, how can you make money? This is a particularly crude question.

Pi Ma:

Basically 90% of my Memecoin is on Solana, or even higher, and I will not pay attention to other currencies on any other chain. This market has evolved an optimal solution for you, and you are just looking for a second alternative on this optimal solution.

The core reason for looking for a second option is thatyou did not get a result on the optimal solution, or did not participate in it, you just went to look for that kind of compensatory rise, which is very easy to fall into investment traps. You will find that once you enter, it will either not rise, or it will torture you to death between the rise and fall. Another core is that it is difficult to pocket. You will find that when the Solana head meme retreats 30%, your 200% profit is gone, and the retreat is very fast. So I basically do not pursue the final pocketing in any investment system. I personally think it is very difficult for you to try to avoid the first knife of the entire market from bull to bear. Crypto is 7 X 24 hours, you can't keep an eye on all market fluctuations in real time, which means that it is bound to be easy to pocket floating profits but difficult to pocket.

The role of the leader is that it can give you a second chance to touch the high point, giving you an attempt to close the profit, so basically just focus on the leader.

Second, I think when people invest in Memecoin, they often focus on a short-term, flat and fast approach. In fact, from my personal experience of getting big results, short-term, flat and fast may not be suitable for medium-sized and above investors, unless your size is very small.

Participants in short-term, flat and fast approaches are often only attracted by short-term attention and do not consider the core operating logic of Memecoin. Split Memecoin into the horizontal and vertical axes, with the x-axis being time. The y-axis is the market value. You will find that the market value of most Memecoins is proportional to time. Time is a very important concept. Except for very few cases such as BOME and TRUMP, all the current Memecoins with a value of more than 1 billion US dollars have been running for more than half a year. Without the factor of time, many assumptions are invalid.

I think Memecoin is a feast of behavioral finance in many cases.

One ​​of the founders of behavioral finance is Richard Thaler, who is also a Nobel Prize winner. He divided the original investment system into two types, one is a savings account and the other is an entertainment account. The entire Memecoin has strong entertainment account attributes and functions. Daniel Kahneman also wrote a very famous thinking before. He basically divided people into two systems: System 1 is thinking, logical, rational, and requires a lot of energy; System 2 is simple, direct, fast, and does not require too much energy. Reflecting on the field of Crypto, Memecoin is perfectly compatible with System 2, which is fast, effective, and highly volatile, satisfying some of our FOMO emotional and capital operations.

Two weeks ago, I saw a paper saying that a person's investment decision-making process may not exceed 6 minutes. Now in Memecoin, it is even 6 seconds. This is very similar to many of our investment decisions. In fact, many of my investment decisions are very impulsive. Of course, I am impulsive because I have thought about the foundation Beta or the savings account clearly and arranged it, so I have a lot of time and energy to find more possibilities in the Alpha market. A very important challenge that behavioral finance poses to traditional finance is that everyone is irrational. What you think is rational is just living in your own information cocoon. People live in huge noise, and most people do not have the ability to distinguish noise.

To sum up, I think Memecoin is a great development of behavioral finance. If we develop a theoretical system related to behavioral finance in the future, we can actually use some of Memecoin's data as a research sample.

Three soul questions: Do you dare to buy? Do you dare to hold a large position after buying? Can you hold it when it falls?

Liu Feng:In the past few cycles, we have learned the investment logic you wrote, and now we may only look at volatility and whether the social consensus of Meme can quickly attract liquidity. Do you think this situation can continue?

Pi Ma:

In fact, the reason why many investments are difficult is that the times are changing, the structure of investors, the age of investors, and the income level of investors are all changing.

Let me first say the conclusion, Memecoin will definitely continue to develop, and this is not only in Crypto. In my system, the Crypto field is not a separate market, it is completely related to and synchronized with the development of the world. People who have not caught up with the dividends of the times, a large number of unemployed people, people who have been eliminated by globalization, and people who have no direction and investment opportunities due to class solidification, use a rebellious mentality to refuse to vote for those elite personalities. Whether it is the tariffs in the United States, the rise of new nationalism in Europe, including the rise of right-wing conservatism in Australia, the world is undergoing a new wave of nationalism. The reflection of this trend in real life is condensed into slogans such as All in and A Shuttle. This trend is not only in the Crypto field, but also global.

I think the rise of nationalism has injected a lot of power into the Memecoin market and other niche markets and speculative markets. This part of the power will have a great impact on the traditional financial market with the development of AI and peer-to-peer Internet information technology.

You follow P Xiaojiang because he brings a lot of chips and results, which are the most impactful, spreadable and eye-catching. I will avoid sharing practical pictures, but many other Twitter users will use it to gain huge exposure. On the other hand, we now emphasize information equality. People's attention is very limited. When you pay a lot of attention to P Xiaojiang, you will definitely not do in-depth research on the theoretical system. The core is back to the old three things: Do you dare to buy? Do you dare to hold a large position after buying? Can you hold it when the heavy position falls?

Many times, you only get the results, but not the decision-making thinking process behind the results, so even if you know the results, you still won't buy, dare not buy, don't buy a large position, and won't hold it all the time.

With the advent of a lonely society, selling demand is more attractive than selling products for niche tracks. What is demand in the field of Crypto? That is, psychological identity. Users holding Memecoin form a small group and community, which brings strong psychological identity, and this extremely identified community will only strengthen itself. But it is very unfortunate that Pump has launched more than 1 million Memecoins, but only a handful of them have survived. This state of excessive participation and excessive lack of results will form a very rebellious situation:Seeing others get good results will cause great stimulation to oneself, thus becoming more diligent, making further mistakes in wrong choices, and then further affecting the mentality, unable to focus on analysis and summary, and even worse in getting results, a very vicious cycle.

Memecoin is a very interesting social phenomenon, but fewer and fewer people are observing it.

Focus more on Meme infrastructure: Which LaunchPads are worth studying?

Jack:

Many Memes may not bring particularly big results even if they double 100 times. What is the purpose of your frequent participation in small and medium-sized Memes?

Pi Ma:

This is a water temperature of market participation. I need to participate in the market with the most liquidity and the most retail investors. When I discuss Memecoin, I am not talking about what kind of results Memecoin can bring to me. For our investment, I may pay more attention to Memecoin infrastructure, such as DEX, LaunchPad, etc. These are two completely different systems. You can understand it as Beta on the left hand and Alpha on the right hand. For me, I only devote some time and energy to investing in the Memecoin market to feel the market trend after my Beta work is very solid. The best thing about the Crypto field is that you can use very subtle observations to feel the flow of the global capital market. All Memecoins have returned to zero, so there is no major loss for us. However, each Memecoin market is mapped and related to other investment markets, but most people don’t feel much about it. We need to consider the allocation of global capital. These targets only serve my core Beta selection, so the participation in Memecoin is just to verify some logic, so that we can make a more reasonable evaluation of some core targets of Beta.

Liu Feng: I actually understand your logic. The Meme investment logic you shared before, why do you only want to get real returns on Memes with large market capitalization? This is related to your size, and it is completely different from the logic of many people who say that they can change their lives by investing in Memes. Maybe retail investors only want to talk about Alpha, but Beta is more important to you.

This era is actually the era of Memecoin. Meme is already the voice of the times. We should not deny it, but accept it.

In this case, we can look at Beta and the Meme launch platforms that have gone through several generations of evolution. Can you introduce which ones you like and think are worth studying?

PiMa:

The most eye-catching one is Pump.fun (hereinafter referred to as Pump). In fact, they don’t have much innovation, but the core business model of Crypto is transaction fees. How much market share you can occupy from this business model, how much cash flow you have, and how much valuation I can give you. Pump meets the needs of asset issuance. This product integrates the huge demand of Memecoin, and the two sides will hit it off. There is an infinite supply, and there are infinite invisible pursuits of ultra-high multiples of retail investors, so you will see asset issuance platforms springing up like mushrooms after rain.

Retail consumers are a highly financialized group of people in the Crypto field, with a strong sense of risk. They have a high impulse to gamble, and you have to design products for their impulse. Where do retail investors spend money? Only on transaction fees, they would rather give you more handling fees, and also try to hit Memecoin. He is not a fool, why does he pay such a high MEV priority fee? Because he thinks the income can cover the cost.

We position Crypto retail investors as a group of extremely financialized people. All our products are centered around their needs. This is one of the important factors for the success of Pump.fun, including Virtuals, which later developed AI, which is also a LaunchPad. Both of them meet the strong demand for asset issuance, so we observe that this kind of launch platform is a very good investment target. Memecoins can die a thousand or ten thousand times, and there will be successive Memecoins rising, but a good launch platform can solidify your funds,make a profit, and truly win by doing nothing, capturing the greatest value in capturing the entire Memecoin operating trend or trend.

Launch platform and public chain: Attracting developers is the core

Jack:For example, Virtuals is now on Solana. Do you think it is too late now? There is only one chance?

Pi Ma:

For all launch platforms, you need to understand its supply and demand. Who will be the supplier of the launch platform? This is a very important factor. Many suppliers of Pump are anonymous. Virtuals have certain choices, but they are also anonymous. So when you look at the quality of any launch platform, you should pay close attention to revenue.

For launch platforms, my evaluation system is exactly the same as DEX. In fact, to another extent, launch platforms are a bit similar to public chains, but people have not raised the two to the same level.

As a launch platform, the core ability lies in how to attract developers, which is exactly the same as the logic of the public chain. Why do developers go to A instead of B? This is something that is worth thinking about in depth. This is the most important issue that determines the future direction of launch platforms and public chains.

Because the experience end of the service is occupied by a large number of retail investors, we usually think that the launch platform, including the public chain, is a to C market, but in fact, in my opinion, they are a to B market. If there are no good assets and no good developers entering, your public chain/launch platform will never be successful.

The most important thing for public chains and launch platforms is future cash flow income, which depends on continuous trading volume, and trading volume depends on the continuous enrichment of varieties. Therefore, how to attract excellent developers to your launch platform is the core. It is actually very easy to conquer retail investors. As long as there are good assets, retail investors will come when they smell the smell.

Of course, whether it is a public chain or a launch platform, it often tests some means and methods of marketing, but if there is no injection of high-quality assets, it is difficult for a launch platform or a public chain to last.

Believe's unique market positioning

PiMa:

I think Believe's strategy to enter the market is right. APP developers have a lot of financing needs, but they almost never get financing. Believe's supply side is independent developers, who develop a large number of APPs every year, hoping to achieve positive cash flow from APPs, but there is no suitable channel to monetize APPs. If the market is niche, it is impossible to achieve a market value of billions or tens of billions.

Believe focuses on this group of independent developers, or those who want to try some new fields and new directions. Crypto retail investors have a very high risk awareness and tolerance, and the core is that its market value is very low, which has long made it possible to achieve a hundredfold or a thousandfold return. Believe directly borrowed some experience from other launch platforms, that is, sharing costs with these developers, which is very good, and achieved positive cash flow for independent developers in the cold start phase.

In the traditional field, making an APP requires a lot of people to do a lot of work including development and marketing, but in Crypto, only a product is made. Whether this product can succeed is not important, but once the launch is successful, it can be divided into hundreds of thousands of US dollars in cash flow within a short week. This is a very considerable income for independent developers. Once they have this positive cash flow, they can continue to polish products, expand markets and serve users.

This actually explains why this model is called the Internet capital market. It meets the strong demand of a large number of small developers and small and micro enterprises for financing difficulties, releases the supply side, and is very in line with the trend. With the advent of AI, independent developers can achieve very good annualized revenue alone, and your promotion and operation can completely rely on TikTok and Twitter to spread virally.

But do you think it is possible for very large and very good companies to emerge on the Believe platform? I am actually not confident. I am observing this, but I believe very much that Believe has solved the niche market very well. This niche market serves a small range, a specific group of people, and very targeted customers. They make money from this part, which means that they don’t need to be big, but they have their market.

Another thing that impressed me about Believe is their careful planning and packaging. Their page design is quite meticulous. In addition, they have focused on launching some projects and activities. They are trying to tell a story. In addition to the Crypto field, they can also connect with other market niche groups. These traditional Internet developers are not familiar with encryption. This process must be the same as the first wave of AI market. I personally think that thousands of such projects will die. This is a process of familiarization and adaptation. We will observe slowly.

Liu Feng: You are very supportive of Believe's logic and its own positioning. It is more like a launch platform for practical applications. Now all the launch assets are meme-like, and Believe may have a batch of available applications.

Pima:

I hope so.

Update: Before this podcast was released, the Believe team announced that they would suspend the automatic coin issuance function of Launchcoin, and would manually review and add the verified label. We asked Pima to comment on this change again. Pima's opinion is: "Audit systems are generally stupid; permissionless is the way to go." Obviously he doesn't like this change.

Liu Feng:We have recently pulled out some of the applications that are emerging on Believe, or some of the assets that are being launched. I should have a table in my hand, there should be about 50 or 60. I am also thinking that if it is just a meme, it is actually too abstract. But if there is a real application, maybe it will be a different thing, including the launch platform that Dingaling is promoting. Its advantage is that the token design is relatively unique, but with only the token design, I think it is difficult to occupy its own position in the market, because Virtuals' token design is already quite extreme.

Pima:

The key is to have people. How to fool developers to your launch platform is a very critical thing.

Transaction volume: the only evaluation standard for launch platforms

Pima:

The only standard for evaluating LaunchPad is transaction volume, which represents core earnings. If you can't figure out this underlying logic, you won't invest when Pump comes out.

You have seen the results now. Pump has earned $700 million. What is a reasonable valuation for Pump? Under normal logic, a valuation of $14 billion at 20 times PE is also reasonable. If we consider that volatility is too high and Memecoin is not sustainable, a valuation of $7 billion at 10 times PE is also acceptable, or even a valuation of $3.5 billion at 5 times PE is also acceptable. The core of this question is:

What is the investment actually investing in? It is a kind of discount on future cash flows.

So when you consider LaunchPad, it is not about whether the platform is currently worth 100 million, 200 million or 1 billion, but whether the platform's revenue can continue to expand in the future. This is actually completely applicable to the logic of stock market investment.

Crypto AI: Guided by investment return results

Liu Feng:I have to ask you to make a disclosure here. Believe you invested, right?

Pi Ma:Yes.

Liu Feng:This information disclosure is quite important. The audience may also think that Pima invested in this project, so he thinks highly of this project. So if you look at it as an investment, I think everyone should do their own research and be responsible for themselves.

In addition to Meme, are you looking at AI Agent?

Pima:

Now the entire AI track is basically result-oriented, that is, investment return-oriented.

For the field of Crypto AI, we feel that all these investments in the infrastructure field seem to be repeatedly borrowing some AI technologies in the Internet field, so we feel that it does not have a particularly deep moat and does not have any unique characteristics. Therefore, we are basically result-oriented, that is, you can help me make transactions or increase my revenue. The combination of AI and social media may have a higher profit explosion point.

Liu Feng: It sounds like you are not very confident in Crypto AI or Crypto's AI agent?

PIMA:

On the one hand, I think many of their core technologies basically come from the field of traditional Internet. On the other hand, to find their own business model, Pump is a very important representative of the rise of the application side. We tend to look at more application-side ecosystems.

Application-side ecosystem, I first need to know where the paying user base is? In addition to asset issuance and trading, many application-side projects did not come out in the end because they could not achieve positive cash flow. For example, games, can you tell me a game side that has achieved a stable annual revenue of 300 million or 500 million US dollars? No.

Liu Feng:In real-world games, this is definitely possible, but in Crypto, obviously you can only get such income by selling coins.

Pi Ma:

Yes, because of the uniqueness of Crypto users, for Crypto games, players will feel that you are asking me to pay, am I right? No one pays for krypton gold, but the main business logic of the game is krypton gold.

Therefore, in the application field, revenue is still the main focus. Where is the revenue generated? The quality of the revenue generated? The sustainability of the revenue generated? These are all points that we pay close attention to, and we are result-oriented.

Liu Feng:So I can say that your current investment logic is very clear. Just don't tell me about the trend and paint a rosy picture. What I want is that you can really show results, can generate your own blood, and can have real users.

Pi Ma:

Yes, because the times are developing, innovation is also evolving, the macro interest rate environment is also changing, and the development logic of globalization is also changing. I think many things cannot remain unchanged.

Optimistic about the future development of Crypto

Liu Feng:The cryptocurrency circle you are talking about doesn't seem to be the one we are familiar with.

Pi Ma:

Actually, I think I am very optimistic about the future development of the cryptocurrency circle.

A lot of logic revolves around transactions. If you can better meet the trading experience of global users, whether it is a launch platform or DEX, or a traditional exchange, or a dog-beating software, these products are both market-oriented, in demand, and have users, and customers are willing to pay for your product.

The US legislation has gradually become legal and compliant, and a lot of money will come to the chain. Stablecoins are only 200 billion US dollars now. In the next two or three years, or three to five years, stablecoins may continue to reach 1 trillion US dollars. At this size, it will present a 24-hour transaction and operation. The trading track can extend a lot of extremely huge market space, so I am very much looking forward to products in the form of DeFi or Internet finance on the chain.

In addition, the core business model of the entire Crypto field is transaction fees. After the transaction fees are repaid, the enterprise end will repaid the company end, and the company will continue to expand its user base after receiving the money. Combined with the religious nature of the Crypto community, it is very likely to gain certain market growth and space in some niche areas that we cannot access.

This is actually a very good and effective operating logic that I have seen, that is, you do not need to maintain cash flow by selling tokens, you just need to let everyone trade more, you can achieve an average daily trading volume of 100 million US dollars, you may get 1 million US dollars in revenue, you can completely expand your coverage to achieve higher returns.

Of course, it has some problems. For example, once it reaches arbitrage, or the product does not obtain positive information flow other than trading, it may collapse, but this is not important. What is important is that we have seen a very good way to start, which is to use transaction fees to support the growth of the company in the early stages, which is also very consistent with the characteristics of Crypto investment.

Liu Feng: You are still so high-spirited. Thank you for your belief in recharging.

Pi Ma:

I just see a possibility.

The core of the public chain is the Gas fee and MEV fee

Jack:Actually, I still have a confusion. I just mentioned that in the future, with the development of stablecoins, more funds may flow into the chain. But is it possible that all the funds flowing into the chain will remain in the state of stablecoins, and transactions will also be priced and anchored by stablecoins. It will no longer use the native assets of this layer of the chain, such as ETH or Solana. The profit-making platform will remain at the Pump application layer. The underlying chain seems to still be in a coin selling model. It sells or sends coins to nodes, and then the nodes sell them to the market. Then, the underlying coin seems to no longer have the ability to generate its own blood at the level of handling fees. In this way, although there may be a lot of money in this industry, it does not seem to be of much help to the underlying tokens.

PiMa:

The core of the public chain is the gas fee and the slowly developing MEV.

Gas fee is the fee you need to pay for every action you make. You can understand it as a cost expenditure for the bandwidth storage or computing resources of a public chain in a period of time. This is where you have to pay. The fact that you have to pay means that this is a very good business model and investment system logic.

A large number of stablecoins come to the chain. No matter which chain it is connected to, it will definitely have a demand for liquidity and a demand for transactions. Assets on the chain means everything on the chain, and tokenization is a very big trend. Because it has very high transparency and flexibility, and it has a 24-hour non-stop feature. You need to understand more deeply what is the on-chain Nasdaq? It is the issuance of assets and trading assets, which is your source.

After you have so much money coming in, you can look at the revenue of TRON. Their revenue is very stable. TRON maintains a revenue of 10 billion because it has a demand for stablecoin gas fees.

Jack：I understand this, but the trend we can see now, for example, from Ethereum, in its last cycle, because of the Gas fee and various on-chain innovations, whether it is NFT or DeFi, it did promote its value capture a lot, but in the process of a large number of applications going on chain, its Gas fee has become an obstacle to its own expansion, and then it began to enter a process of reducing Gas fees. Gas fees continued to decrease, and it was found that although the on-chain adoption increased, the Gas income was getting less and less, and in the end it basically could not rely on this to maintain its own value. It seems that this phenomenon can also be seen on Solana.

Pima:

You are absolutely right. All blockchain systems are software, and the software will continue to iterate. If we think from a long-term and ultimate perspective, the marginal cost of the Gas fee of all public chains is zero, so how can we make a profit?

You can look at the priority fee on Solana. Solana's basic fee accounts for only about 1/3, and most of the rest are tips and priority fees. Why raise the tips and priority fees? This is actually the most core competitiveness. The future revenue of the public chain will be determined by tips and MEV. Solana actually distinguishes the ecosystem through this. The basic fee is just an ordinary transfer, that is, transfer is one fee, and other transactions are another fee.

You will find that when you optimize the system around transactions, you can occupy a lot of profits on the transaction side. The profits of MEV and REV are very large, and they will definitely far exceed the Gas fee in the future development process. Why do users pay for acceleration? Because they are willing to grab this block. The trading market is first come first served. This is also the reason why Nasdaq on the chain pursues millisecond block speed. Solana is now 400 milliseconds, which is actually far from enough. I think it may be possible to compete with the traditional Internet at 20 milliseconds.

In this REV or MEV competition process, customers are willing to pay, which is the core competitiveness. Why are customers willing to pay? Because customers think it is profitable. Whoever occupies the bulk of MEV and who makes customers more willing to pay determines a way to discount the company's future core cash flow.

80% of Solana's daily revenue now comes from tips, priority fees, and MEV fees, which is very telling. We need to look for more lasting, more efficient, and higher-quality income.

The moat of a chain's development is developers. The public chain is a market for the B-end, and the C-end does not determine its success or failure. How a public chain attracts developers depends on its own ability. What is important to me is the transaction volume, REV, and developers of this chain. This is an important indicator for me to view the growth and future plasticity of the public chain.

We try not to invest in any public chain projects now. The overall situation has been determined, and what is not determined is your position. There is also the network effect, just like why not challenge CATL in the new energy field, because building an ecosystem is a very difficult thing.

Liu Feng:Can we think that, in your opinion, the world of public chains has already been fixed, and we should not expect any new chains to succeed in counterattacking?

Pi Ma:

In the past ten years, China's Internet has given birth to ByteDance, a $100 billion giant. If venture capital or secondary capital has not invested in ByteDance in the past ten years, it is basically useless because ByteDance has taken away 55% of the profits. The 80/20 rule exists in every field. The reason why we have expectations for many things is because we are loyal to some of the logic of the past.

Crypto still has hope, just like Hyperliquid is rising. I think Hyperliquid and Solana have the same goal, which is to become a decentralized Nasdaq. Monad seems to be able to do the same.

The core is that we have learned to calculate. We have a large number of ETFs coming, and we are facing more mature investors. In the future, in a unified account, the friction of transactions will be smaller and smaller. Today, you can buy Nvidia, Alibaba, and Tencent, and tomorrow you can buy Bitcoin ETFs in the same account. Who you buy determines who is more expensive and who is cheaper.

The core question is, why should Solana and Ethereum be given 100 or 200 times PE? If your revenue performance is not as expected after multiple cycles, then the PE must be reduced. The investment system is becoming more and more mature, but many people don't think about this problem. The focus should be on the core revenue and the core fundamentals. There are many people in this world who are willing to think, but now everyone's attention is extremely decentralized and one-sided, so they use some concise and abstract language to express emotions, such as a shuttle, etc. This is also a microcosm of social evolution. What is scarce in this world is the ability to think independently and distinguish noise. Layer 2 has greatly weakened the economic value of Ethereum Liu Feng: I actually wanted to ask you the last question. If you have to choose between Ethereum and Solana, which one would you choose? But obviously this question doesn't need to be asked anymore.

So, can you tell me how Ethereum made you abandon it? Why? Are Ethereum developers not good enough?

PiMa:

I think the core transformation of Ethereum was in 2018 and 2019. You asked me about an area I was bearish on at the time. I said Layer 2, which would greatly weaken the economic value of Ethereum.

I have actually studied the so-called professional terms such as currency settlement layer and execution layer, but I am not interested in them because these things are best quantified. How much money is settled in the settlement layer? How much money can Layer 1 make in a day? Once Layer 2 is split, OK, all the money is earned by Base and Arbitrum. How much money will they hand over to the central government Ethereum? Is this way of sharing reasonable? After the local lords of Layer 2 get a lot of economic ownership, will they have other ideas to seek armed independence? Will they seek market-oriented operation with greater profits? I think these are all issues that Ethereum has not thought clearly in the past.

I think everything can be quantified and can be explained clearly with certain financial indicators. The gross profit margin of the public chain is actually very high. If you want to know who makes the money, you don’t know who will pay the bill. This is a very important issue.

So I personally think that Ethereum’s Layer 2 is a relatively wrong way. It does not give back to Ethereum very well, and the money is taken away by the local lords of Layer 2.

Conclusion

Liu Feng:Finally, I would like to dedicate this podcast to a very good friend of mine and Pima. He was a little fan of Pima and left us in the second half of last year. We were all very sorry.

If he were still here, he would definitely listen to this podcast very carefully, so I want to dedicate it to him, and thank Pima for sharing.